SF Tim u Vikici?

[MasterYoda]

Kasno, već su obrisali  ono što sam postavio. /&$(&$)&/=)(/?$%)#(%&#(&
im njihovu. Nemam ideje kako da ovo odradimo. A baš se lijepo uklopilo. Nije mi jasno kako su opstale druge slične stranice, a našu uporno brišu.

[MasterYoda]

Pošto sam se reg. na wikici, u svoje sanduče tamo dobio sam sledeću poruku:

A tag has been placed on SF Team requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for web content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Beeblebrox (talk) 06:39, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Sal, molim te da ipak napišeš to obrazloženje, uz dodatak da smo više puta pokušali postaviti stranicu ali da ona bude promptno obrisana iako smo postavili {{hangon}} tag, i da nismo imali dovoljno vremena da dodamo obrazloženje. Poslaću to direktno adminu, u njegov boks.

[Sal]

Evo, zavrsio sto sam pre mogao...
Malo sam ga "nasminkao" sve sa ciljem da delujemo ozbiljni.

Ne znam za zaglavlje, jer nisam upoznat sa formom, pa ti Mastere vidi ..ostavi ili prepravi, kako god mislis da treba.

[Sal]

To the Wikipedia administration from a little unprofit and unofficial Serbian science fiction community (SF TEAM).

Dear administrator, for several times, our community tried to show up on Wikipedia.
Every time our page was deleted.
We completely understand the regulations on showing up on W, and we think that you could make an exception, for the following reasons.

Our community, put together from sci fi fans, enthusiasts and amateur writers and painters for over two years exist with only one cause..
 To populate and affirm the science fiction genre in Serbia, and in all the others ex Yugoslav republics.
In this cause, we made some very good projects.

First, we run a never ending sci fi quiz on one of the largest Serbian boards, with a few thousand answers and questions. We think, this quiz is very informative and educating, since we have on hundreds of participants.
Then, we put together our portal and board.
Our movie and book revives, posted by our members, have several hundred hits every day,
Amateur writers and painters post their work on our board, and run very nice and educating discussions.

Nobody of our members get any material satisfaction for this.
We function strictly on amateur and volunteer’s bases.

And at last, our pride, our fanzine called SF Team Vector.
We have published (in e- form, not printed) nine issues (every two month one)
For our 10. Issue, we planning to find a sponsor, to get it out on paper and giving it for free in hi schools and universities.

As I said before, our members (SF TEAM) have no material satisfaction for there hard work, promoting science fiction in our little country.
And we know that we doing a good job.

So, I am asking you to give us a little space on your great encyclopedia, in “Science fiction in Serbia”
That would four our members be the biggest satisfaction.
In case of granting our space, we serious promise you that no promoting or anything similar will took place, just a little history of us with our projects.

Please, consider our request.
Thank you

Sincerely, SF TEAM.

[Sal]

Zaboravih da napisem da nas posete na sajtu.

Please, visit us on www.sftim.com, in the international corner topic, and see for yourself.
We will gladly answer all your questions.

Ubaci to gde mislis da treba.

[MasterYoda]

Postavio sam tekst u talk stranu. Sada čekam odgovor.

[dan555]

Ti ga baš "posolio". 
Nije SF TEAM VEKTOR nego samo SF Vektor, namamo još 9 nego 8 brojeva.
Taman posla da posete naš internacionalni kutak, tamo nema šta da se pročita.
A i oko kviza ga malkice preĆera.

Za Vikicu je bitna objektivnost, ne smeju da nas uhvate u preterivanju, potrebne su samo tačne činjenice.

[Sal]

Recimo..da sam te cinjenice sagledao iz drugog Aspekta...

Deveti br je gotov al nije izasao, sponzora jos nismo nasli, iako se "polomih" trazeci ga, a za kviz nek dokazu...

Mislim da ovi nasi dogovori spadaju u UP...

[Sal]

I ako nas odbiju, ipak smo odradili nesto.
Vreme reakcije izmedju inicijative, izbacivanja teksta, postavljanja na W, ukidanja, dogovor, akcija, jopet skrabanje teksta, jopet postavljanja je oko 24 casa.

Skoro da nije lose prolazno vreme, ali mi to mozemo i brze..

Znaci, kad se nesto oce, moze se.
I ako nas odbiju, ko ih shisha...ne znaju sta gube..

[MasterYoda]

Dobio sam odgovor:

Firstly, I'm not an administrator. I didn't actually delete the article, I just nominated it. Click here to talk to the admin who deleted it the second time. Secondly, Wikipedia is not a web host, it is an encyclopedia, and until your organization has been the subject of non-trivial reporting in reliable sources, it will not be an appropriate topic for an article. The policy on sourcing is here and the general notability guideline is here, and how to get a article undeleted is here. I am a huge SF fan myself (John Brunner is one of my personal favorites) and I'm sure your board and quiz is interesting, it's just not an encyclopedic topic. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:18, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Sve što sam označio crvenim su interni wiki linkovi. Mrzilo me da ih kopiram. Ako neko želi da to sve pročita, neka ode ovdje http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:MasterYodaSR. Sad ću onaj isti tekst poslati adminu koga ovaj tip označava kao odgovornog.

[Kahless]

sto ne pokaste prvo sa vikipedijom na srpskom?

[NaraYan]

Uopshte mi se ne svidja shto je ispalo ovoliko komplikovano. Znam da treba postojati neki kriterijum, ali Wiki je web enciklopedija i kao takva mora imati unos o SF teamu.
I shta je sada konkretan problem??? Shto nema dovoljno validnih podataka o timu na netu???
Ja mislim da mi stiskamo za gushu ove koji preporuchuju sajtove za brisanje, tu lezi problem.

[Sal]

Fol je u tome sto Photon Tide ima stranicutamo, a mi nemamo, iako smo ista "organizacije"

Znaci, treba one tamo harambashe ubediti da mi ipak zadovoljavamo kriterijume, ako se sagledaju iz drugog ugla.

Master sada vodi igru, i ja samo cekam sta i kako sledece da napisem da on siljne.

[Izitpajn]

Mislim da je glavna caka u tome što se malo tko referira na vas. Da, forum postoji, fanzin postoji, vi postojite, ali to je to. Vi postojite, ali nije da vaše postojanje ima odraza u nekom realnijem, ne-virtualnom dijelu stvarnosti. Ja bih se zaista koncentrirao na fanzin jer se bojim da samo postojanje grupe ljudi koji se druže na jednom forumu i održavaju jedan web-sajt nije materijal za enciklopediju.

We completely understand the regulations on showing up on W, and we think that you could make an exception, for the following reasons.

Ovo što sam boldao je jedan od uzroka zašto vas ne shvaćaju ozbiljno. 'Ebiga, imaju svoja pravila i ne možeš od organizacije s nekoliko milijuna stranica i tko zna koliko teksta i tko zna koliko ljudi tražiti da rade izuzetke. Ako popuste tebi, eto još milijun zahtjeva tipa "Njima ste mogli, ajte sad i nama."

First, we run a never ending sci fi quiz on one of the largest Serbian boards, with a few thousand answers and questions.

Forumska aktivnost. Nije za enciklopediju. Forumi su najniži oblik web-postojanja, to je kao da od nekoga tražiš da u nekom tekstu napravi referencu na razgovor koji si vodio s prijateljima u kafiću.

Then, we put together our portal and board.
Our movie and book revives, posted by our members, have several hundred hits every day,
Amateur writers and painters post their work on our board, and run very nice and educating discussions.

Mislim da je jedan od kriterija uvrštavanja na Wikipediju razgraničavanje između virtualnog i stvarnog svijeta. To što postojite na netu nije dovoljno.

Nobody of our members get any material satisfaction for this.
We function strictly on amateur and volunteer’s bases.

Ovo je potpuno nebitno. Oni nisu tu da ocijene moralnu vrijednost toga što vi radite, nego rezultate.

For our 10. Issue, we planning to find a sponsor, to get it out on paper and giving it for free in hi schools and universities.

Vidi prethodnu rečenicu. Njih nije briga što namjeravate. Briga ih je što ste uradili.

As I said before, our members (SF TEAM) have no material satisfaction for there hard work, promoting science fiction in our little country.

Trying to look cute doesn't work here.

So, I am asking you to give us a little space on your great encyclopedia,

A ovo može zvučati kao ulizivanje i mene bi iritiralo.

That would four our members be the biggest satisfaction.

Ovo ih zanima jako malo. Možda iritira, ali ne zanima.

In case of granting our space, we serious promise you that no promoting or anything similar will took place, just a little history of us with our projects.

Ono što ne razumiješ je da je svako davanje informacijskog prostora promocija. Ono što razlikuje promociju od promocije su dosadašnji rezultati.

Isto tako, osobni pristup ovdje ne pali. "Mi bismo htjeli" i "Molimo vas" nema efekta. Oni ne dijele novce. Oni održavaju servis koji ima konkretnu svrhu i još konkretnije kriterije.

Isto tako, tvoj engleski nije za pet. Ne mogu reći da sam uočio puno grešaka, ali sam ih primijetio nekoliko, a čovjek kojemu si poslao tekst vjerojatno još više. Wikipedija je ozbiljna stvar. Wikipedija je stvar za englesko govorno područje. Za one koji ne vladaju jezikom (gotovo) savršeno postoje druga govorna područja. Ako želite da vas shvate ozbiljno, uložite trud. Ne idi na prvu loptu kao što je promptno dopisivanje s adminima. Apsolutno je nebitno to što si odgovorio u roku od 24 sata. Bolje da si tekst stavio ovdje na diskusiju, razradio, dobio komentare i lekturu i onda poslao, nego da si ga istipkao i odmah kliknuo na "šalji".

[dan555]

FotonTajd se udenuo u stranu o trekijima, zato što su organizovali konvenciju, koja je ušla čak u strani dokumentarac.

Osim toga, njihov fanzin je objavljivan uz časopis Astronomija, što će reći da je ubedljivo najtiražniji srpski fanzin (3.000 primeraka).

To su razlozi za ulazak u V.

Slažem se sa Izitpajnom, već sam bio predložio da probamo sa člankom o Vektoru i možda kvizu.
O nama o tom potom.